Rina Chua
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Speaker 1 [00:00:02] Okay, There we go. Okay. I'm just double checking that everything's showing up, so I think it is.
Speaker 2 [00:00:10] All right. That's. That's perfect. Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah. So I know she. I'm working alongside Thayer for this project for their documentary release. And just to tell you a little bit more about this project in person and like, I mean, not in person, but there's a, well, it is a documentary about, like immigration, but more on the mental health issues that come with immigration. And I'm sure you've read the little information like picture. But yeah, what this project is, it's a it's a website that would release alongside the documentary. So it's kind of a similar thing where we put people's stories on a map. So it's going to be an interactive like website where you like, you will have a little guide and kind of like the location you are, but obviously not like your actual address or whatever. And then and then we would have your interview story there.
Speaker 1 [00:01:20] Awesome.
Speaker 2 [00:01:22] Yeah. If at any case you feel like you don't really want to reveal some things in public, you can tell me like something specific that you said today that we don't want released out into the public. And obviously I'll send you a cut before we put it on the website.
Speaker 1 [00:01:39] Yeah, sounds good. Thank you.
Speaker 2 [00:01:42] Do you have any questions?
Speaker 1 [00:01:44] I think I'm okay. I think I'm familiar with things. I'm just wondering how this would be sent to you. The. We'll figure it out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:01:54] Yeah. Like through email or, like, usually I think you can upload it on Google Drive and then send me Google Drive link.
Speaker 1 [00:02:02] Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:02:03] Sounds good. Yeah. I want to thank you so much for recording on your side, and I really appreciate it. Like, it's very vital.
Speaker 1 [00:02:12] Like to have backup software. Backup after backup. Yep.
Speaker 2 [00:02:19] Thank you so much. Yeah. Are you ready to begin? Yeah, I am definitely. Also, make yourself comfortable. This is more like a a conversation rather than like an interview.
Speaker 1 [00:02:32] Yep. Yeah, sounds good. What I'm going to do is I'm just going to quickly put this on work focus. So, yeah, I just get these calls sometimes when I'm in the weirdest meetings with the most important meetings. So. Okay, There you go.
Speaker 2 [00:02:52] All right. Are worried for anything? Yeah. Okay, So how do we start off with. Tell me your name, where you're from. Where In the Philippines you grew up and, like, where you live now.
Speaker 1 [00:03:07] Okay, thanks. [00:03:09]So, my name is Rina. I was born in Manila, Philippines, and I grew up in the south of Manila. Las Pinas. [14.7s] At the time when I was growing up, you know, it was where production of sold was happening in the Philippines. And it was very rural. So I was not born in, let's say, Sampaloc or Tondo. So I grew up in a very rural area. Right now I'm also in a city, but it's not quite like Vancouver. So again, another city that's adjacent to the the center of things. So I'm [00:03:56]I'm currently in Cologne of British Columbia and which is, you know, as you know, the interior of B.C.. [6.8s]
Speaker 2 [00:04:06] [00:04:06]Yeah. So what's your current occupation? [1.2s]
Speaker 1 [00:04:09] [00:04:09]My current occupation is a research associate with University of British Columbia Okanagan. I also teach English and composition and communications and rhetoric. [12.2s]
Speaker 2 [00:04:25] Is that something that you like always want them to be when you were younger, that things change? Like, could you tell me a little bit more about the journey of getting to where you are?
Speaker 1 [00:04:34] Yeah, I, I wanted to be an architect when I was younger in the Philippines, and unfortunately my parents are first generation, you know, parents. They never they went to university, but they never fully finished their degrees. We were just lucky that my mum got a really good job as one of the first batches of flight attendants with Philippine Airlines. If you're familiar with Philippine Airlines, that was a big deal. You know, I think it might have changed right now how people perceive flight attendants. But during our her time and during the time I was growing up, there were kind of like models or kind of like supermodels because it was so they had such strict conditions for joining the airline. But so we were very lucky. My mum was the breadwinner of the family, however, you know, and my dad couldn't keep a job down. He was bipolar. So the issue was we had money, but we did not have enough money to support an architecture degree. So they kind of early on when I showed my interest towards it and they know my skill also as an artist just does not... It just does not fit. You know, I knew when my limitations are and they realize, Oh, I'm better at writing, so I'm better at writing, I'm better at creating. I love research ever since I was, you know, in high school, it was something fascinating to me. But being a teacher. So my bachelor's degree, which I took in a University of Santo Tomas, was a teaching degree for high school in English. And I guess it just made sense to me. It's so I took it for practicality. My parents can afford the degree for them. Being a teacher means you'll never run out of jobs. And they thought it was safer than, say, being a writer or economically, it's better for them than pushing for an architectural degree. So it made sense to me. And then when I got into teaching, I wasn't sure it was what I wanted to do. But, you know, once I started teaching beyond the theory and the courses, the coursework, it just made sense to me. It was where I could excel and I immediately I love reading ever since I was a kid. So this, you know, with I could make with words what they couldn't make with art or withdrawing. It just made sense to me. So I just pursued that. Yeah. So yeah, it's a little bit of a jagged, you know, and there's like paths to it, right? A lot of my batch mates in USC are still teaching in high school level, which is amazing to me. They've held a job down for like 15 years and I decided, you know, Oh, I'm really good at research and writing. And so I want to do the creative and scholarly path, which is what I did.
Speaker 2 [00:07:51] That's really fascinating to hear this journey. And I'm really glad that you, like, grew to love teaching and it's something really special. Could you want to expand on more more like [00:08:03]when you came to Canada and even when your parents came to Canada, how was that like with with, with you and your career? And like, what age did you did you move here and your parents as well? [14.3s]
Speaker 1 [00:08:19] [00:08:19]So I'm first generation immigrant. I think my parents from an early age kept encouraging us to leave the Philippines, which sounds awful, but I think it's just the way and, you know, I'm going to do, you know, kind of professor speak, but it's just the way the neoliberal economy and the post Marcos dictatorship way of thinking had formed in them. And it is that, you know, being the bagong bayani, which is the term for overseas Filipino workers, equates to success. [41.2s] And and it's because you see it all around you. Where I grew up, we grew up, we grew up in a subdivision, wasn't gated, but it was a subdivision. It was, you know, my parents purchased a house and lot their before everything else started building up around it. And you see the ones who had the best houses, they were the ones who work overseas, the seamen. You know, the people who are overseas, Filipino workers, they had businesses. [00:09:28]So my parents encourage that. [1.4s] They realize immediately that it's not possible with my elder sister. And they kind of pinned it down on me like, oh, the moment you need to leave, you have to leave, blah, blah, blah. I [00:09:45]for a while, I think, you know, as a as I was growing up, I was so, so, so resistant to that. Especially, you know, obviously I'm in the humanities, I'm in the literary arts. So there you know, I was friends with a lot of Marxists and nationalists. And, you know, I really wanted to stay. I really wanted to stay. But I always felt like I never belonged in the Philippines anyways. For one, you know, I got pregnant really early. I had a baby at 21, [29.7s] which, like, you know, like a what, less than a year after university. And I not sure if things have changed, but back then Lolita was like [00:10:29]that was really hard because the way back then it was single parents, single mothers were perceived was quite, I would say, quite volatile, you know, especially because I was in teaching. [14.8s] So there were instances when, you know, I think one of the things that I remember when I was 21, you know, I was pregnant and obviously [00:10:52]I had to resign from my Catholic school teaching job, just awful rate like what my mom was told me, Oh, you could be a cashier. It's like, which is nothing. There's nothing wrong with that. But, you know, I had an education degree in my head. Why couldn't I pursue an education degree? Why is being pregnant limiting me from pursuing what I want to do, what I know I'm good at doing? [24.1s] So when the opportunity [00:11:21]to I finished my master's degree in De La Salle University, that was transformative for me because I met people who encouraged me and knew that I could, you know, I could study overseas and it wasn't easy. So I literally, you know, I was teaching eight courses per term, which was the course load for University of Santo Tomas. [21.8s] I don't know how I did it, but I was young, you know, I was 25, 26 to accept that you start to save money. And then because at that time my parents, you know, I was contributing a lot to the household and because they were taking care of my daughter as well, helping me with my daughter in the Philippines where, you know, we live intergenerationally together in the house. And then we [00:12:06]and then I would in the weekends, I would take speaking engagements, writing engagements, anything. I wrote textbooks. I spoke to teachers all over the Philippines, you know, 200 audience. And I did that to save money, basically. And I also used that to travel. So I ended up with a sizable amount of savings, which I used to, you know, bring me to Canada for my Ph.D. degree. And I only had one school in mind. It was UBC Okanagan because of the person I wanted to work with was here. [32.7s] So I was very lucky. This was the only university I applied to and they got in. And of course when you get in at that time and they just want to preface this by saying that was in 2016, things have changed, [00:12:53]but in 2016 degrees from the university, from the Philippines, whether you are you have an M.A. or not, they just did not recognize it as a master's degree. So they admitted me here with a master's degree. And I was so I was so angry about that because my master's degree was stellar. You know, I work really hard as a single mother with a job. I finished my master's degree with a medal, so I'm not very easily I'm not going to take a second master's degree. [32.9s] That master's degree was very special to me. And I was on the Fulbright scholarship, too, back then, so I was so angry. [00:13:36]So I kind of said they have to allow me to transfer to Ph.D. if if they, you know, if I'm going to come in as an international student. So that was in 2016, and that's how I moved here. And I moved alone. So my daughter was left with my parents with the arrangement that once I'm settled, which is easier said than done right as an international student, once I'm settled, they will help me bring her here. But of course, it did not happen that way. So. [30.5s]
Speaker 2 [00:14:10] Yeah, I'm sure you've heard this multiple times, but my congratulations. That's a lot of hard work paid off. And that is something that is. You should always feel proud of yourself for. Yeah. Congrats. And that is really frustrating when, like, obviously they don't like they want you to take another second message. That's very frustrating. So yeah.
Speaker 1 [00:14:36] I'm glad they got away with it. I'm glad they got away with it. But just keeping in mind that time I had a lot of bargaining chips and because I plan everything, I was so strategic back then because I was young and ideal. So I move before I turned 30. So I was just so idealistic and I had a plan and I made sure I had bargaining chips of publications, you know, book deals and everything else. It has to be out there. These are my achievements. You have to let me transfer to you later on, which I was able to do a year and a half later.
Speaker 2 [00:15:16] Yeah. Do you want to expand on like, how how it felt to like to leave the Philippines and go? Like, who did you leave the island and what did that mean for you? Like. Was it what was the process like? Because. Because you've touched on it. Like, I think mental health is like a huge part of like our our project. And obviously you can explain what you want to and you don't have to go and that's but but what was that like and how you felt. Mhm.
Speaker 1 [00:15:53] [00:15:53]I think, you know, at the time that I left, mental health was not as important as it is right now in the Philippines. [9.9s] As you know, my dad was diagnosed with bipolar disorder very, very late when I was 25. He's missed out a lot. He's such, he's like one of the loveliest persons, very caring, very devoted to his children. He tried his best. But I think because the infrastructure wasn't there in the Philippines back then to. To to diagnose him. And we come from a family of doctors, which is hilarious to think about that. You know, it was later on that the doctors in the family were like, I think we can refer you to a psychiatrist. We in the Philippines, you know, as somebody who grew up in the Philippines. [00:16:49]It just wasn't something you thought about. Right. You just never thought about it. I probably suffered from postpartum depression. What was that back then? I do not I did not have terms for it, you know, and especially when you have such a tumultuous pregnancy, it was just like a blur. I think for me it was similar when I decided to move [24.4s] and I had to keep, you know, the mechanisms grow. Starting, starting, for example, Visa's bank accounts and everything else. When all those mechanisms started moving, [00:17:32]I don't remember anything, honestly. I just remember booking a ticket because I, again, I was very lucky. I had, you know, passes with my mother. [10.6s] So we booked a pass waiting because, you know, you have to wait. If nobody shows up their sex receipts, then you get in and waiting. And then we booked another pass because my mom has a higher tiered pass, which she didn't realize, and we book another pass. We just sort of waited. And then I finally got in the second day, which was again very lucky because my mom had the higher position in the airline. [00:18:09]And then I think I think it felt ready. I felt ready. I had a very intense, intimate relationship with my my city with Manila. I love Manila. You know, it's just it's my city. It's so, so fun. It's like the back of my hand. It's so familiar to me. But I knew when it was time to say goodbye, [26.4s] if that made sense, everything was HD. You know, when I ride the jeep, me Everything was just crystal clear. I could hear everything. I could hear every single noise. Everything was heightened. Even when it was raining. I could see through the rain and I could see the chanties I could see the sari sari store. It was a strange experience and I think this was even before I got my visa. I knew I wanted to go, but of course it was dependent on the visa, right? But when I had those moments, those intense moments, and then things started happening, like for my friends will show up in one spot and then they'll joke, right? They'll be like, Oh, you're really leaving the world? This is so coincidental. It's just those moments that made me very much certain that I was about to go in those moments, you know, because I'm quite in-tune with these moments as a creative, as a writer. Then I started preparing and then I started talking to my daughter because she was nine at that time. It was such a good age to, you know, my daughter and I are close and we maintained that relationship even when I moved until she turned to a teenager. And so she would avoid my phone calls. But we've always been buddies, you know, And even now, as she's here now, she arrived last June, we've maintained that kind of relationship where we're it's just a little bit it's a little healthier because we grew up together. So when I left at nine, I told her I prepared her and us and told her like, this is how we set up things, how we call. And immediately the moment I arrived and every day, every day for years, I would wake up four or 5 a.m. to call her. So it's that kind of relationship. But I think when [00:20:40]I think your environment tells you when it's time to let go, I think as well it's important to listen to those things, to your body and it tells you when you're ready, you're ready. And I felt ready. You know, I just I just knew it was time. It was time to go. [17.6s]
Speaker 2 [00:21:01] That is something that's very like, you know, it's really hard to make that decision. And especially like when like in the Philippines, I like also I moved here two years ago and I grew up in the Philippines my entire life. Also, I'm really sorry if you hear voices.
Speaker 1 [00:21:20] You're going to hear dogs. Dogs. It's so, so so I think they they've been good today. So we're lucky. Yesterday was rough. They're not my they're my landlady's daughter's dogs. They're lovely. I love them. But yesterday was rough. So today's better. So we're lucky.
Speaker 2 [00:21:38] So okay is over. But, um. Yeah, that's really something to like. It's really tough to make that decision. And it's. It's refreshing to hear that everything's so clear, you know, like the decision was clear, although there were things, obviously, things that you people and places that you had to leave behind. Yeah, it is [00:22:00]it is good to hear that it was clear to you because, you know, also it's so important to think about your own future and your family's future and what that means. Yeah. How how was it? Because you say your daughter came last June. What what was that like? [17.4s] Like to actually to be in your daughter's space again?
Speaker 1 [00:22:23] [00:22:23]Yeah. So I'm not going to lie. It's been rough in many ways. We're starting to hit a rhythm that we're we're successfully coexisting with each other. And, you know, there are moments when it's just all worth it. It doesn't matter what happened. It's always worth it. But but, of course, it was rough, I think. You know, I think I never thought about what it meant for her to move here, because for me, during my time, I was so excited. Right? I was ready. I was ready. It was I had agency. I decided, okay, I'm going to move. And it was my choice. But for her, it wasn't her choice. [46.9s] And and I feel like everybody else I'm talking to and having friends who are also, you know, 1.5 immigrants is so helpful because they're they're giving me perspective of how it was to move when you're 15 is such a hard age. And it's giving me an idea again, because everything is such a blur, right? [00:23:38]Even the process to get her here. So my daughter traveled alone because, you know, it was just so expensive, right, to to go back and then get her. But to do that, we have to go through like a ton of paperwork. It was ridiculous. It was so stressful. I felt like my hair was starting to fall out. And again, that's stress, right? But when she got here, I just I thought, like, oh, she's going to be happy like me. But the moment she got to the airport and the moment we left and we drove out of the airport, she started crying. And I was like, Why are you crying? And I just didn't get it right. Like, why are you crying? Aren't you happy? Because I'm like, This is so great, you know? And I like this country. She's like, And then, you know, I ask her months later when we've arrive in Cologne and we've settled down and ask her and she's like, I, I'm so overwhelmed because I haven't been outside of the country in years. [55.5s] And she's right because of, you know, she the the pandemic in in the Philippines just dragged on and on the lockdown, dragged on and on. So she was just so happy being at home. Right. That was her whole world for a while. And then she was homeschooled because of the pandemic as well. And I think they just returned face to face. There is what they call in-person in the Philippines. So that was really tough. [00:25:01]And I think for her, it's just so overwhelming, like big, you know, big roads and everything was just so different suddenly. But she's, you know, and but my friends assured me, oh, she'll be you'll you'll be surprised at how quickly she adjusts. And I think they're right. I think she is doing better than what I've expected. Of course, there rough moments, right? Because I'm learning she's learning, but we're trying to be open and transparent with each other. I'm also very much aware. I always, always do check ins with her [35.2s] because I'm always scared that, you know, she might be depressed or something. She's introverted. It's taking a while to make friends, which worries me. But then again, we're two different people. I'm very extroverted and she's very introverted, so I'm trying not to impose what I think you know is supposed to be what she's supposed to do, and she's but she seems happy. I ask her, Are you happy here? She says, Yeah, I like it here. There's less stress here. Of course there's less stress If you're being driven around everywhere right by me. I drive her around everywhere and we're trying to catch up on all opportunities. Like she goes to art intensives. You know, just. It doesn't matter. Like, I'll drive her anywhere as long as she gets those opportunities. But I think also, you know, I'm trying to get her into counseling because one of the things we never address, I had the chance to address it because there's so much more facilities here in Canada than there ever was for me at that time in the Philippines. But, you know, the school she's in, in Cologne is fantastic. They have a counselor and I want to get her in there, just trying to check in with her. [00:26:52]We've had tremendous losses throughout the time of our separation. We lost my dad a couple of months after I moved here. Like a month. I moved here so I wasn't able to go back. And then during the pandemic, we lost my mum. So these are two big losses for me and then for her because she grew up with them. So we're addressing we're trying to address that. [24.4s] And it's quite fascinating to me that, you know, we're moving forward together as a unit, as a family, as a team, but also as we're moving forward with her. Now here, I'm starting to remember little things about my mom and my dad. And I've never I've forgotten I've forgotten so many things about the Philippines. I've forgotten, you know, what what people who are selling on the streets like the Hole or Bhutto. I have forgotten what they say. I forgot in the jeepneys how it is to ride in the jeepneys. And I've forgotten like little snippets of what my mum and dad would sing or would tease her with. I just forgotten all of that and I don't know why, where the memory went, maybe the intense stress that we've been through the past. Six years. Seven years have erase parts of my memory, but forgot all of that. So it's wonderful to remember with her. But yeah, it's just, you know, it's still an adjustment period, but I feel I'm starting to feel better about it as opposed to maybe a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2 [00:28:35] [00:28:35]Thank you so much for your transparency. And I like your hair, like honesty. Like it means a lot for just like you to say this to me. And I'm so sorry for your loss. That must've been really, really, really hard to deal with. But you sound like an amazing mother who, like, really considers your daughter's feelings is also your relationship. Like, it's. It's like I have just no doubt that you guys will, like, have a really flourishing relationship. [33.7s]
Speaker 1 [00:29:10] [00:29:10]I try. We try. That's all you can do. At the end of the day, you kind of have to try. [4.6s]
Speaker 2 [00:29:17] Yeah. And that's always just like, so worth it to just have a little bit of hope. So I really feel bad. And. And thank you, like, just for explaining this. It's like, really just very heartfelt that I really wish the best on your family and relationships.
Speaker 1 [00:29:36] Thanks.
Speaker 2 [00:29:38] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Was like birthdays. Like, has it been your daughter's birthday? Has it been your birthday recently or. No.
Speaker 1 [00:29:45] Yeah. We're going to go next year. She's on February and I'm in March, so it's very close and it's going to be her Sweet 16. So I think we're going to plan something fun here. Maybe some animals involved. She loves animals, but it's going to be low key, which I think I really like that about North American culture. I love our traditions. I love our traditions, but I just never really I was just never really excited about it. You know, the the 18th birthday, the 16th birthday. I don't know what other traditions, even the Christmas the long Christmas, you know, I just was never just so enthusiastic about it. Plus, I felt like I've always been suppressed in the Philippines. And again, I was very lucky to be in the humanities because I had an outlet for me at back at home. It was like, Oh, your ideas are so out there, you know? And here I feel quite supported and I feel that I have the resources I need to pursue what I want. So of course, like, you know, birthdays are important, but now I don't feel pressured to put up like, I don't know, I've read the whole way in a church somewhere and have her dress up and then feed, I don't know, 75 people, which, you know, in some places I know in Vancouver I have lots of good friends in LA to take us in details In Vancouver, they do that and that's amazing to me. I've just never been one for it. I'd love to attend. I'll have I'll have food and I'll bring my Tupperware to bring home food. But I, I just if I'm going to host one, it's just not me. It's just never been me and my family has always just been low key, so I'm quite excited. Different kind of traditions here, right? But it's more low key. I feel like it's not as pressured as it is back home, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 [00:31:51] Yeah, I feel kind of similar to you in the seven Square and birthday celebrations were never like a big thing to name. Like, my birthdays were always I remember my biggest birthdays where I was when I was like in elementary school. Yeah, of.
Speaker 1 [00:32:06] Course. Yeah, true. I mean, you know, you should have a fun birthday in elementary school, like. Yeah. And I feel like that's fun. But to have, like, a big thing for 18th birthday. Yeah, it's a great tradition because it is coming of age, but I'd rather have my daughter choose what she wants to do than force a formal party on her. So I feel like, Oh good, good thing we don't have to go through that unless she wants to, which is fine that she chooses it. But for me to impose it like no.
Speaker 2 [00:32:44] I like so but as I said, I do. When was the last time you were coming back to the Philippines? How did you get to see your parents?
Speaker 1 [00:32:52] Ah yeah. So I flew back in 2018 and then 2019 and 2019 was the last time just before the pandemic. I only I saw my mom. You know, I never got to see my dad again. And I made peace with that. I saw my mom. And, you know, she is a big reason why I signed for my daughter, of course. But she was the one that I keep coming back for. You know, my mom and my dad love each other intensely, you know, reflecting on it. They had such a you know, it's not it's, you know, quite unusual. It's not a lovey dovey relationship, but it's it's their best friends. And I think. I really missed him. So she wasn't sick. She had diabetes, but she wasn't sick. But when Dad passed away, he's already had heart problems for a long time and he likes to push himself to do stuff around the house. So, you know, my mom kind of said to one of my sisters, Oh, you know, I only have three or four years left. And I'm like, What do you mean? Like, I was like, What do you mean that's not true? We have plans because I wanted her to stay here to visit. She doesn't want to live here because it's too cold. As she grew older, the cold is just too much for her. When we went to Hong Kong years ago, we went in February was just too much for her. And that was just wind, right? I was like, Oh, that's not too bad. Now I think about it, but it was a lot for her. So she and she's flew to Vancouver a lot of times and she loves the snow, but she knew in her body that she was not any more able to withstand that cold. But yeah, it was like we were like hopeful that she would make it, you know, And because that would have made also for me the process easier because she's the legal guardian and they don't have to go through all the hoops and paper. But it didn't happen that way. So I did see her in 2019. That was the last time I saw her. She passed away in 2021, and that was a good visit that I was there for almost for a month and a half. I had so much fun. I enjoyed it. We got to see a lot of places and visit a lot of people. I saw a lot of my aunts and uncles who also passed away during that time. From 2019 to now. And I think, you know, I can make peace with that. Um, people ask me, Do you want to go back? You know, do you want to go back any time soon? To be honest, now that my daughter's here, I think not for a while. Unless you want to. Eventually, maybe her 18th birthday. Maybe that's her request. But while she's here, there's just no more reason to go back at this point. Right? My mom's gone, and she's here. I have sisters, but we were never really close. We're fine. We're okay. We have an okay relationship. I was never really close with my sisters. My friends were my family for the longest time, so I don't feel compelled to go back. I do. I miss it. Of course. You know, sometimes I dream about the Philippines. I dream about Manila and the smells. And, you know, I wake up and I just get, you know, you're kind of disoriented. You're like, where am I? But now that my daughter's here, there's just no good reason to go back unless there is a reason.
Speaker 2 [00:36:30] That makes a lot of sense. It does make a lot of sense. Do expand on the smells. I just want to hear your perspective because I also felt like a different shift in the air, the difference in the smell. When I moved here, I want to.
Speaker 1 [00:36:47] Yeah, I think, you know, they said that you know, they said that the first thing that you forget when somebody passes away is their voice. And one of the last things that you remember about them are their smells, which is quite fascinating to me, how much, you know, the olfactory can store memory. It it kind of comes to me in waves. And sometimes it's so distinct I could smell. It's just there's so something so unique about Manila when it's raining and there's just such a distinct smell and it's like a smell of, you know, wet and then smoke because of, you know, when you're passing by, people barbecuing on the streets, you just smell that smoke. And I just associate those two smells together when it's raining because everyone's crowding around the vendor when it's raining and everyone has their umbrella. And I can't explain the smell. I just know it. It's just such a unique smell. And that is something I remember all the time. I don't know why, but it comes to me in dreams and I just kind of wake up. It's like, Oh, I know that smell. And it just sticks with me. Certain smells from Manila sticks with me, and that one is the one that keeps coming back, you know? And sometimes I think, Do I miss Manila or it's just my memory, I think kind of clawing out and kind of saying, Oh, hello, we're still here, you know?
Speaker 2 [00:38:32] Yeah, And that's very true. I do. Look, even when you're describing like the smoke and the barbecue and just immediately the smell of it. Yeah, I just. What you're talking about.
Speaker 1 [00:38:47] Yeah. It's so you need. I don't remember. I don't know if you remember, but I do remember the smell of smog. I don't know. I don't, I don't remember it. Like I know a lot of my students. They said that when they first arrived in Canada, they immediately noticed, like, the air smelled so clean. Sure, I smelled it, but I don't know if I would remember the smell of smog in Manila. I remember rain because there was just so much of it.
Speaker 2 [00:39:21] And it's funny because Vancouver is like, really rainy. Yeah, Yeah. But it's a different kind of rain and.
Speaker 1 [00:39:28] Yeah, yeah, different. Very different.
Speaker 2 [00:39:33] And, [00:39:34]um, so what do you think about Filipinos going abroad. Mhm. But it's obviously that is such a good wide question and I'd like more like what's your opinion on it and what's your experience with it. [14.7s] Obviously you have um, personal experience, but also observing how there's a lot of fellows going abroad. I know you touched upon that a little bit but. Mhm.
Speaker 1 [00:39:59] Yeah. It's funny because a lot of my friends are in North America now. Um, in 2018 I did a road trip from Las Vegas to. Oh, gosh. Arizona, Utah and Colorado. And seeing friends along the way. And these are really good friends from university and they're just all my good friends are here mostly, you know, my most successful friends. I'm not going to say like we're the most successful. And I think. So that's my first comment. [00:40:33]I feel that there's just so much pedestal, you know, people who go abroad that we're put on a pedestal and moving means you're successful living in the U.S. or Canada or the UK means you're successful. It isn't in no way did I ever view or and my story when she's moved abroad, you know, because it's just gotten a thousand times harder. Hey. Right. Like moving here has really changed me as a person. And I know and I understand that not everybody's prepared for this. Right. And that does not make them less or more of a person. [46.7s] You know, I actually feel sometimes, you know, I feel jealous of those who go back to the Philippines to understand that there's still something to go back for because I don't have anything else to go back for. You know, I feel jealous about to make that decision and say, I've done my time in Canada in the US, where ever I'm going to go back now, you know, I'm going to take care of my parents. So that's common in academics. And again, I'm coming from the academic community and literary community in the Philippines or the diaspora. A lot of them decided to go back because their parents are there, because they have a job waiting for them in a university. I've never had that either, so there's nothing really for me to go back. [00:42:08]Second thing is, I think from this generation, my generation and then the preceding generations, we're just so conditioned to leave the country, you know, the government encourages it. Ah, it's encouraging our educational system. What do we teach our students? Right? It's very Euro America and what we teach our students. [24.8s] We talk about the diaspora. When I was teaching, for example, Bienvenido and Santos the day the dancers came. I never really clued in on just the melancholy of that piece and what it's telling us about life abroad and and these stories. Now I look back at them and just realize all of these stories in the diaspora of these fantastic writers we've had who's decided to stay or go back in the Philippines. Some of them are political prisoners too, and that's why they are in exile. I've just never realized that was my first clue. That should have been my first clue that it wasn't going to be as easy as it is, because oftentimes when academics go back and they're in the Philippines and this is obviously not, you know, a criticism of that, but my observation is that it's all beautiful abroad, right, because they have a cushy job, a great job in a university in the Philippines. [00:43:36]I never really got an honest perspective of what it meant to move, you know, because everyone could win or like the way that it's talked about in the Philippines, in my experience, was that it's going to be okay. You're going to make it. It's easier there. You have health care, [19.1s] blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, [00:43:59]I wonder I wonder how much that conditioning, that kind of conditioning from the filibuster society, the environment, the government, the nation state also affects this kind of diaspora, right? And there's so much, so much stigma for those who come back as well, not just academics, you know, I know academics who come back and they're just seen differently by Filipino academics who stayed. You know, there's a tension there. Gosh, I can go. I know that. Right? But there's also like stigma for workers who come back. It's like, oh, you failed you because you did get to stay, blah, blah, blah. It's so complex and so problematic that I feel that this needs further. I don't know what what can change. You know, I can only speak of what can change in the diaspora. I'm not sure what can change back home. [64.3s] I'm not sure we are at the majority to change things right now with the way things are going, unfortunately, you know, [00:45:13]and I think for me this was the right decision. I wouldn't have done it anywhere else because I've never really felt like I fit back home in the society. I just knew I was different. It's just that feeling in me that I knew I was different and I just knew I wasn't thriving there. [19.5s] And I don't want to stay in a society where my being a single mother, an unmarried mother, is detrimental to my success as an educator. I'm just not going to stay there. [00:45:50]So I felt, no matter how hard it's been, this is the right decision for me. And it could it might not be for everybody else. I just wish there's more transparency, you know, And that's why I decided to do this interview. I want to tell that, you know, to be as transparent as possible, to provide a snippet of my truth and be transparent about it so that people are not making decisions based on what their parents want, what their friends are doing, based on what the government is telling them to do. So yeah. [34.3s]
Speaker 2 [00:46:26] [00:46:26]It has been you for your honesty and your perspective, because every perspective is very important, no matter what the opinion is and the experience. And so that was very important. So thank you for that. [12.3s] Mm hmm. Yeah, I guess we're going to be like we're we're getting closer to, like, finishing the interview. But, like, do you feel like do you feel like you have you are you have fulfilled what you wanted to do and you are on the right track? Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 [00:46:57] I think I'm on the right track. I think I'm getting there. It's just, you know, I'm human, so I can't help but compare, right? I look at my friends back home, my contemporaries, and they have, like, positions, high positions now in universities. And I'm still, you know, on the job market here. And of course, that hurts sometimes. And I feel and I've talked to another academic here in Canada, and that person has a tenure track job in a university in Canada. And we feel the same. We look at folks in the Philippines, our contemporaries, our colleagues, and amazing, they've done their like, you know, they have positions, academic positions. You're admin now. And some of them have published like 20 books and I'm still trying to publish my first two months solo monographs and solo poetry collection. Yeah, I feel like I've been set back a bit by the decision to move. Is it the right thing for me? Sure. I think also as well, you know, one of the things I always think about is, you know, with all the things that has happened the past six, seven years, if I stayed in the Philippines, would I have the right resources to address whatever it is that I was feeling at that time here in Canada and in my university, we had counseling. I was so lucky. I was waitlisted for a long time for a counselor, a free counseling service with the treatment plan, because I reached a point of burnout. When you're just running on empty emotionally and physically and mentally, and you just keep on going because there's just no other option but to keep going, especially when you're living abroad. You know, I was so lucky and I felt like that allowed me to finish my degree in, you know, a shorter amount of time than most people, despite everything. So I don't know. I don't think I would have the right infrastructure back home, you know, And I just feel that. No matter how hard it is here, I knew where to find a resources to help me and to to push me forward. So, you know.
Speaker 2 [00:49:32] We've got a great answer. And I think it is really good to kind of acknowledge all of the work that you've done and signal that like, like and then you should be proud of yourself for being where you are, you know? You know, there's always like there's always difficulties in life and comparing and stuff and but like, bottom line, your passion will always stay within you and that will get you places.
Speaker 1 [00:50:05] So yeah, I think my friend and I summed it up as we all have our journeys, we all have our timelines and each timeline, you know, it doesn't matter. There's no finish line, right? It's just us trying to live our lives and to survive the best way we know how. And here in Canada, I feel like I'm able to make my own timeline. And that's important to me to have agency over my life. That's the most important thing to me.
Speaker 2 [00:50:45] That sums it up. That also sums it up for me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, [00:50:50]do you have any last things to say? Maybe if you wanna say something about your experiences or you want to say something kind of like, to my immigrants. [10.6s] Mm. That's funny. Um.
Speaker 1 [00:51:07] [00:51:07]I think if we know, one of the things that. That always was important to me when I was struggling here the past couple of years was never forget to ask for help. I think it's just so, so easy to kind of sit with whatever you're feeling, whatever you're going through, [23.1s] especially those icky things that we don't really talk about in the Philippines, not just mental health, right? Like financially or discrimination. [00:51:42]A lot of us just kind of sit with it and kind of we're like, oh, you know, that's okay. I have to be grateful I'm here. I'm here in Canada, I'm here in the US. I think also there's just a lot of stigma about complaining as well. When you're living in another country, you're just and I think a lot of expectations that you're supposed to just be grateful all the time. Right. I yeah. So that's probably my advice. Ask for help when necessary. It's there's always help on hand. That's my experience here. There was always somebody ready to help any time. And and if help is available, take it right. Pride aside. Just take it. [56.2s]
Speaker 2 [00:52:40] That is really helpful advice. And I think also I am starting to talk to myself more and it is super helpful. It is very helpful to be in a place because everyone kind of searches for agency and independence and it's like when I moved here or was something that I wanted, but then I lost like, oh, like community or like, or whatever reliance for something that I think is just so necessary as, like, as humans. But it's like really hard to find that.
Speaker 1 [00:53:14] Balance.
Speaker 2 [00:53:16] For everyone, right? Yeah, but, but that is a really, really good reminder. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 [00:53:23] Yeah. And I hope you remember that, too. I'm not sure if you move with your family, but there's always help, you know, with your family, outside of your family, you know, find your resources and find your community there. There's help here. So.
Speaker 2 [00:53:42] Yeah, I find the finder kind of like I know we just met, but I find, like, kind of your vision and, like, just what I feel like really similar to me. I've also moved my, my family's back home in the Philippines, and I haven't seen them for like a year and a half. But yeah, but there's something there's something about my experience coming here that changes a lot for me in terms of like finding that balance between independence and Yeah, well, thank you so much. Like, this was a really, really it was really nice to talk to you and to hear your stories because it is just such an important story and like, oh, it was like also the way you were thinking is so perfect.
Speaker 1 [00:54:34] I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying to, you know, not just go off on a tangent and trying to remember the question and not be too emotional. But I'm trying to also be comfortable with emotions, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:54:50] But you did it perfectly. It was like you were telling, like, a story. It was really nice.
Speaker 1 [00:54:55] Well, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks so much for this opportunity, and I'm very excited to see where the project goes. And yeah, if, if also you need anything, just let me know. I'm not always in Vancouver, but if you have questions or you want some advice, I'm just an email away.
Speaker 2 [00:55:15] That's really sweet. Yeah, you can go ahead and solve the recording from your phone. So. So that doesn't take so much space, but.
